The Kennedys' representative recalls the Freedom Rides
Seigenthaler discusses his participation in the Freedom Rides as a representative for President John F. Kennedy and Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy. After briefly relaying how he had come to work as an administrative assistant to the attorney general, Seigenthaler explains how he was sent to Alabama to help negotiate safe passage for the Freedom Riders. In addition to discussing his interaction with Alabama Governor John Patterson and Bull Connor, Seigenthaler describes the violence Freedom Riders faced and describes how he was injured while trying to hep two women. Seigenthaler's attack, in part, prompted President Kennedy to call in federal marshals to protect the Riders.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with John Seigenthaler, December 24 and 26, 1974. Interview A-0330. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
Bob had asked me to come into the Justice Department as his press
secretary. I said that I didn't want to be
anybody's press secretary. I didn't want to be a propagandist. At least
I knew by that time that the separation between the press and the
government should be absolute.
I had grown an awful lot. A lot that I had seen was beginning to come
together. I said that I would like to be in the administration. I said,
"I would like to stick around for a year working with you."
At any rate, I went into the Justice Department as his administrative
assistant. Ed Guthman came in as his press secretary. I was very anxious
to get involved with civil rights activities. Burke Marshall was in
civil rights and needed somebody who had a southern accent and . . .
- BILL FINGER:
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Did you work with John Doar?
- JOHN SEIGENTHALER:
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Yeah, I worked with John Doar.
- BILL FINGER:
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Did you go to Fayette County?
- JOHN SEIGENTHALER:
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As a matter of fact, if you look at Fayette and Haywood Counties, you'll
find that they went for Nixon in 1960. John Doar is responsible for
that. John Doar is and was a Republican. He had been hired by Eisenhower
and sent down there in those years. The only black areas of
this country, that I can find, that went for Nixon in 1960
are Fayette and Haywood Counties and I've told John Doar personally that
he was responsible for that. But we were close friends. As a matter of
fact, when I got hurt in Montgomery, he was with me that morning. I was
wearing his shirt. I had been on the road, the Freedom Riders needed to
get out of Birmingham after they had been assaulted in Anniston. And the
President couldn't get John Patterson and finally, the lieutenant
governor arranged for me to see John Patterson and I flew down and met
with him and got assurances from him that the Freedom Riders would be
given safe conduct into Mississippi. And of course, they got from
Birmingham to Montgomery . . . Well, let's see, the first group of
Freedom Riders we had to fly out. I flew down and got them out of
Birmingham into New Orleans. Then the second wave came down and were
failed. I went up to Birmingham to meet with Bull Connor and I had to
negotiate with him some.
- BILL FINGER:
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What year is this, '61?
- JOHN SEIGENTHALER:
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'61, yeah. The first wave of Freedom Riders left Baltimore and got as far
as Anniston and the Klan got them, burned the bus and beat the hell out
of them. They were a rather interesting group. If you looked
at them, they were old line pacifists, demonstrators, some
Socialists. But when I got to them in Birmingham, they had been stranded
there for two days. They had canceled three or four airplanes because of
bomb threats. They were stranded there. They couldn't get them out on
the bus or the train or by air.
- BILL FINGER:
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Who called you to go?
- JOHN SEIGENTHALER:
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Simian Booker was a black reporter for Ebony Magazine.
He was an old friend of mine and an old friend of Bob Kennedy's. And he
called me and said, "Man, it's real shit down here." He said, "It's
rough."
- BILL FINGER:
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He was traveling with them?
- JOHN SEIGENTHALER:
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Yeah. He had come into see us before he left. And when he called, I took
the call first and he said, "You know, we can't get out. I don't know if
we are ever going to get out of Birmingham. They have got the airport
surrounded." I told him to wait; had been trying to get through to the
Attorney General for a couple of hours. And so, I went to see Bob and
said, "Simian is on the phone." He talked to him and said, "I'll talk to
the President and we will get somebody down there to help." So, he
called the President and the President said, "Well, who have we got."
Bob said, "John's here, he can go." He said, "Send him. And see if you
can get Patterson on the telephone and tell him
that his problems will be easier if we can get them through to
Mississippi. Put those problems on John Stennis . . . "
- JIM TRAMEL:
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And Ross Barnett.
- JOHN SEIGENTHALER:
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. . . and Jim Eastman and Ross Barnett. So, I went down that night and
got with them at the airport. I then met with the officials of the
airline and worked out a plan to get them on board the plane before they
would take any phone calls. Because, you know, they would have bomb
threatened them and kept them there forever. There was a crowd outside
the terminal. They had been there almost around the clock. We flew them
out to New Orleans and I was in bed about midnight that night. Bob
called me and said, "There's another wave starting down from Tennesse,
you had better get back to Birmingham." So, I got a U-Drive-It and drove
back to Birmingham from New Orleans that night. Bull Connor had met them
when they got off the bus and threw them in jail. And I went through
three or fours days with Fred Shuttlesworth on one side and Bull Connor
on the other trying to negotiate. One night Bull took them out of jail
and ran them back to Tennessee. They hardly got to Tennessee before they
were back. There were cars there waiting at the Tennessee line and they
beat Bull Connor back to Birmingham, you know. The next day, he rounded
them all up again and threw them all back in jail. John Doar had been
trying a voter rights case in Judge Frank Johnson's
(Note: Portions of the above transcript were deleted in
retyping)
court in Montgomery and it looked like we were
going to have to go to court in Birmingham to get them out. Suddenly,
Patterson flew back into Montgomery and gave me an interview. I drove
down to Montgomery and went into see him. And finally he said, "We can
protect them and will." I then left and met with Doar and while I was
with Patterson, we got the president of Southeast Greyhound and the
Attorney General on the line and I had a conversation back and forth.
The result of it was that we agreed that the state of Alabama would
protect them from Birmingham to Montgomery and from Montgomery to the
Mississippi line. It has been written about so damn many times . . .
- BILL FINGER:
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Your exact role hasn't been . . .
- JOHN SEIGENTHALER:
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No, I don't think it has. So, then Doar and I drove back to Birmingham.
Bull agreed then that if Greyhound would carry them, he would let them
out of jail. The understanding though, with Shuttlesworth and the
Freedom Riders was that the bus would make a regular run. They would
stop at every small town. They wouldn't run an express bus. Well,
Greyhound couldn't get a driver to take it on that basis. At any rate,
when they got on the bus, Doar and I drove to Montgomery
and had breakfast and when we got to the . . . the Federal
Building—it is really the Post Office Building. It adjoins the Greyhound
lot. I let John out and he went into the Federal Building. As I drove
around the bus station all hell broke loose. The police hadn't provided
any protection. John Lewis was on that ride. They were just beating the
hell out of them. Two young women were catching it and I bounced up on
the curb and got out of the car and tried to get them into my car. They
got me and they damn near killed me. I'll tell you, I was in the
hospital with a fractured skull. Well, when I woke up there was a
lieutenant of police standing beside the car. Doar had stood in the
window and watched it all. The FBI took pictures of it. Later they
recovered the pipe that I got hit with, which Kennedy gave me framed
when I left the Justice Department. But all ambulances were out of
service for thirty minutes. It was really a bad time I woke up and I've
got blood all over me and . . .
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
[TAPE 2, SIDE A]
[START OF TAPE 2, SIDE A]
- JOHN SEIGENTHALER:
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. . . you know, and I said, "What happened?" And he said, "Well, you got
messed up with these niggers and you got hurt." I said, "You better call
Mr. Kennedy." So, he very officiously takes out my
notebook with all these numbers that I've got in it . . . John
Patterson, Martin Luther King, Fred Shuttlesworth, the president of
Greyhound, Dianne Nash, you know. And he takes out my notebook and says,
"Now, what Mr. Kennedy is that?" I said, "Well, either the President or
the Attorney General." So, he looked at me. I didn't have any
identification on me except that notebook. He put it back in his pocket
and said, "We'd better get you to the hospital." He took me out of the
car, and I don't remember anything after that until maybe hours later
and they had me on an X-ray table and I woke up talking to Wizzer White
and he said that the President had called. Bob had been out somewhere, I
don't where, and he called later and there was a good conversation. At
the end of it, he said something like, "How is my popularity down
there?" I said, "If you are going to run for public office, don't do it
in ALabama." Martin Luther King came in three or four days later and I
went out as he came in and they surrounded the building with police to
keep people away. It was a bad time. It was the first time that the
Kennedy administration used marshals. And I was sort of the excuse for
that. "The President's representative was beaten into unconsiousness and
left lying in the street for thirty minutes, so
therefore, the marshals are coming in to enforce the law." John Lewis
and I have been friends ever since.