Practicality clashes with ideology in social justice movements
This passage dramatizes a split in Leftist political movements in the 1930s. When the plight of the so-called Scottsboro boys, a number of African-American teens sentenced to death for rape in an Alabama courtroom, drew national attention, activists argued over how to approach the situation. Some wanted to continue to focus on their ideological battle, but Green and others were more pragmatic: they wanted to save the boys' lives. As he considers his approach to progress, he remembers the desegregation of the University of North Carolina, and his similarly practical strategy for pushing the process forward.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Paul Green, May 30, 1975. Interview B-0005-3. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- JACQUELYN HALL:
-
Well, what is the difference between you and Ericson and Bailey and the
people that would work with you on something like this and the Institute
for Research in the Social Sciences crowd?
- PAUL GREEN:
-
Well, we were, they would say, more radical and we were for case action
rather than a general program. For instance, I had a lot of
correspondence with Theodore Dreiser about another case, the Scottsboro
case where five or six Negro boys were sentenced to death for the
so-called "rape" of a white girl, who was a sort of a
tramp. We worked on that. Well, just the case.
- JACQUELYN HALL:
-
Why that strategy of focusing on particular cases?
- PAUL GREEN:
-
Well, we finally got the ILD, the international labor organization from
New York, they got into it somehow, I was opposed to that. I did all I
could to prevent it. That took it away from a
local control. As I wrote Theodore Dreiser, I said, "Good God,
man, you are willing to execute these boys for this philosophy of
socialism that you have. Well, I am interested in saving these boys.
Then, if you save the boys, that has more impact for your general
cause." Odum and his people were for the big front, for the
movement that they were behind and they felt that if they got involved
in special cases, that would obscure it and maybe then hold them up and
make them possible of derogatory action, whereas if they got a big
general truth that they were promoting, that would ultimately overwhelm
the ignorance and help lift the individual cases. Well, that was two
philosophies. My philosophy was to save the guy. Just like it is a
hellish thing to me to send boys out to die for a cause, I say,
"Save that boy and to hell with the cause." Like Mr.
Ford last week, at Arlington, and he gets up and there are all these
white crosses of boys that have died and what does he say? He says,
"We must keep our military might," is saying "We must have more of
these." He didn't say a word about the character and
ethical nature of this nation and what a pity that these men had to die.
Save the boys and the cause will save itself.
- JACQUELYN HALL:
-
It is interesting because clearly you were more radical than Odum and
that group and yet, when you describe your strategy for dealing with
injustices and social issues, it could be seen in another light as being
less systematic, kind of piecemeal social work thing, the approach that
a social worker would take to problems. Really, a feeling that you could
never change the social system as a whole, you can only ameliorate
individual cases. What is the difference?
- PAUL GREEN:
-
No, I'm saying that the real way to change it is by exhibits,
statistics. You can pull a fellow out … We appealed this
Burlington thing right on up to the State Supreme
Court. They sent down some Jewish lawyers and we met with them and I
told Bill Couch, "Listen, these guys are going to ruin the
whole thing if we let them get up and plead this thing." So, we
talked with them and they promised that they would go to the hearing but
that they would say nothing.
- JACQUELYN HALL:
-
Why did you think that they would ruin it?
- PAUL GREEN:
-
Because for one thing, we had a local North Carolina Supreme Court and it
was just like the University here. As long as we have got good North
Carolina boys running it, the President and the Chancellor, good fellows
and all, we don't have a single voice that has a nationwide
clarion call as a great educator, we are all administrators, good
fellows. We've got some good teachers, but … I
knew those members of the Supreme Court and I used to always find it
easy to go to the governor and talk, but not go as a representative of
the Civil Liberties or the NAACP. I went not as an institutional man,
but as a simple citizen and I was always welcomed by every governor
going way back to Angus McLean, Gardner, Hoey, Broughton, Ehringhous,
right on back even Luther Hodges. As soon as we had this ruling from the
Supreme Court, Alex Heard and I had a little caucus and we said,
"Now is the time to hit" and we went to see Luther
Hodges, he was the governor and we said, "Now Governor,
we've got the backing of the Federal United States Supreme
Court and we have already talked to Mr. Davis at Chapel Hill and he is
ready to move to let the students enter Chapel Hill and we can have a
pilot project right off to start it." Well, to my surprise, I
was in school with Luther and he said, "Paul, you
can't do this." And then he used that phrase that
infuriates you, "You can't do this
overnight." [Laughter] I said,
"Luther, it has been three hundred years." Alex and I
put up a plea and he wouldn't do it. He
stopped this; we already had a decision and he helped reverse it, and
got the Pearsall Plan and I wrote a letter, sent a wire and a copy, a
long wire, to the state papers. He got my wire … I told him
that I was going to do it and he said, "Now, don't
do it." I said, "I'm not going to concur in
this, we've got a chance here to move forward." I,
as a thousand, times, urged that we take the lead in the South in
abolishing capital punishment and again, they said, "Paul, you
can't do it overnight." Well, I was on my way to
Manteo to do something about that show and I got a call from Luther. He
said, "I just got your telegram and I am very sorry that you
sent it." I said, "Well, I'm not. We have a
great chance here to take the leadership in North Carolina and to my
surprise, Governor, you are stopping us." He said,
"No, my ways are right. I'm going to appear on
television next Tuesday and I want you to listen. But don't
send this wire, please, to the state papers." I said,
"I've already done it."
"Oh," he said, "well, it is too
bad."