But to answer this other question, I didn't know any details about the
conflict between Odum and Ames on this. I later was quite into it. Well,
during Christmas vacation of '43, Dr. Odum and I believe Dr. Alexander,
came to my office one day and said, "Well, we want you to do something.
We want you to be the director of this new SRC." Well, I said, "When
would this be?" "Oh, next week, you'd go on the first of January." I
said, "Well, this is rather sudden." I knew that it stood to
Page 26 reason that they had tried to get one or two other people
and hadn't. I later found that it was my friend, Bill Cole, at the
University of Tennessee, who had had the good sense to say no. So, I was
really in a quandry. Here I was, working happily away, doing research,
and we had hoped to finish the research on the Lumbee Indians and get
out a book. Well, I talked to my wife, she wasn't very enthusaistic, but
the more I thought about it, the more I felt like I couldn't turn my
back on it, because I for years had been fully in agreement with Odum's
notion about the importance of some regional organization and getting at
these problems on a regional basis. And I had made speeches in which I
had said something of this sort. So I finally said that I guess I would
have to take it. My wife was then lecturing in the Navy V-12 program at
the University. It was the first time in all these years that she had
had a break to get into the history department. She was teaching naval
history and strategy to these military trainees. And so she was not very
pleased at the idea of moving and I said, "Well, maybe I can make it a
short stay. Maybe I can go down and help get the staff together and get
going, and maybe sometime in the next year. I can come out." Well, she
said that she felt she had to finish out the school year, until June.
So, we agreed that she would stay here and I would go on to Atlanta. So,
I think that on New Year's Day, '44,
Page 27 I got on the
train and went to Atlanta. And it was really a rough time. Now, Dr. Odum
and Dr. Alex had told me that the Commission people would resign:
"That's part of the plan. Except for Miss Clay, We need her, she knows
all the financing and the secretarial end of it. So, we just can't start
off without her. But the others are all out. You've got a clean slate,
you can go ahead and build up your staff and get this thing going."
Well, I found that this was not quite true. Eleazar had resigned, in an
emotional scene, I understand. Of course, Mrs. Ames had not. Well, I had
known her for years and had a high regard for her and considered her a
good friend. And I tell you, I was really in a quandry here. Why did
they tell me this, you know, when she had not resigned? I thought at
first that she had resigned and maybe she was going to be around a month
a taper out. But then Miss Clay said, "No, she has not submitted her
resignation." Well, I was as busy as a beaver. For example, one thing I
had to do, every few days I had to get out and find a new place to live.
You see, hotel rooms were rationed, and with travel, you know, you
couldn't count on a reservation. I never tried to go by plane, because
you just let some lieutenant or colonel come along and want the space,
and you were bumped off. It was the same way on trains. You couldn't get
a Pullman and if you did, you might be bumped by the military at the
last minute.
Page 28 This was all right, you know, you
stood it as a part of the war effort. But a number of times, I got on a
train to go somewhere and there wasn't even a seat in the coach. I stood
up halfway from Atlanta to Raleigh one time. It was way up in South
Carolina somewhere, before I could get a seat. And you could not occupy
a hotel room for, I think, more than one week. So, I would get a few
days at the piedmont and then I would have to check out and go look for
another place, and there were days when I felt that I spent half the day
just trying to find a place to live. I finally got a room, I rented a
room, near the Biltmore, and that eased that problem. So, there was that
sort of problem. And then these interminable visitors, you know, coming
in as if this organization was already going full blast and they wanted
to talk and talk. And then there was the whole business of looking for
staff. It was very hard to find them. You know, people were also
"rationed" and sort of pegged into their jobs unless they had an awfully
good reason to change, and it was very hard to lay hands on people for
this kind of work, anyway, in normal times. And in war time, it was
doubly difficult. And then, we were pointing up toward the charter
meeting, which came up in February and we had to have lists of people to
come and letters to prepare. We had to have some by-laws ready to be
acted on, rules of procedure for this outfit. I worked day and night.
Many times, I went up to my office and worked until midnight. So, I sort
of let this thing with Mrs. Ames rock along for awhile, wondering if she
was
Page 29 going to bring this up and tell me that she
had resigned or not.
[interruption]