Modeling integration at the North Carolina Mutual Life Insurance Company
Spaulding remembers bringing white speakers to the historically black North Carolina Mutual, a program that not only brought innovative business ideas to the company, but also brought blacks and whites together in a pioneering way. In a segregated environment, Spaulding engineered the program to project an integrationist image, and he believes he succeeded in opening some doors.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Asa T. Spaulding, April 14, 1979. Interview C-0013-2. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- WALTER WEARE:
-
Was there evidence this early in Durham that you were having black
leaders, yourself included, having this kind of impact on white leaders?
That is, were they changing?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
-
Well, when I succeeded C.C. Spaulding as trustee of Shaw
University—and I don't want to repeat something
I've already said; I think I told you about…
- WALTER WEARE:
-
I think we missed the part that you're getting up to.
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
-
All right. They would speak at eleven o'clock and have a
question and answer period that would extend it to twelve. I would
always bring that speaker to Durham for two purposes: one, to give him
lunch at North Carolina Mutual, and second, to have community leaders to
come in and meet him, and have him to talk to them on any subject he
wanted. Because all of them were people who were leaders nationally, in
business, commerce, industry, banking, or what have you. Or
international leaders. Jumping ahead, I had, for instance, I remember
when I had Francis I. Dupont to come here. And I wanted him to meet the
community leaders. He was supposed to speak at eleven o'clock
and his train came around eight or eight-thirty, I think. So, anyway, I
called I guess about thirty of the leaders, black and white, in to meet
him, probably at nine o'clock in the morning, in our
directors' room. They came because this was one of the
Duponts. I don't need to elaborate on that. And to rub
shouders with him, and to have him talk to them, and to be able to ask
him questions. And I remember one of the things he
said. Everytime they came out with a new product, they immediately, if
they hadn't already started their research before, on some
product to replace the one that they're just bringing out.
Because they know their competitors are going to do it, and
that's the only way they can stay ahead. And they had
products on the shelf, or formulas, to bring out at the appropriate
time. Already going through the experiments and everything else. And
those kinds of things are something to business people: think ahead,
plan ahead, if you're going to be competitive. And, you see,
those kinds of ideas, people would come, who were doing things. They
were glad to come. And the first time blacks and whites actually ate
together: I started this. When I'd bring them here,
I'd always have about eight or ten to meet with this
person.
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
[TAPE 2, SIDE A]
[START OF TAPE 2, SIDE A]
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
-
I would select key white people to come and have lunch with the speaker
and with the officers of our company. And, you know, I never had a
refusal. They would come over here, and of course it was a private
sitting, and they felt that they could come and not be exposed to the
community. But that didn't last long before I had a
photographer to come in a take a picture of it, for our records, and our
history [Laughter] . And I remember we had
an evening paper and a morning paper. The morning paper was a little
more liberal. The evening paper was extremely conservative.
- WALTER WEARE:
-
The Herald is the morning paper, and the
Sun is the evening paper?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
-
That's right. So I said, let me start with the morning paper.
I had developed a kind of comraderieship, I guess you would call it at
that stage of life, with the publisher, C.C. Council. And he was one of
the early ones that I invited. And he came. And by that time, I had
already started having a photographer come in and
take a picture. And his photographer from his paper came in and took
this picture of us at lunch. And it was run in the next morning paper.
Well, you know what that meant.
- WALTER WEARE:
-
Now, who would be there? These are white Durham businessmen?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
-
Yes. The publisher of the Durham Morning Herald was
amongst the guests at this luncheon with us and the speaker who had been
to Shaw University. He was glad to come, because he wanted to meet this
man and talk with him. And it's just like today. People like
to shake the hand of a celebrity. And I knew that. It went on so that I
would have different ones. Then after this would come out that Mr.
so-and-so was here, and these were the people who were at lunch, it got
to the place where people wanted to be invited. I had no problem. I
would always invite a different set of whites. Sometimes it was a lawyer
and a banker. Well, you just go around the different representations of
groups. Then after that, we would assemble in our directors'
room, and I had a larger group—always about twenty-five or
thirty people there, about equal distribution of blacks and whites. The
black leaders in the different businesses and things they were doing.
The publisher of the Carolina Times, the publisher of
the Morning Herald, and all. In other words, I try to
get all these counterparts. And in planning it, I would always arrange
it with the speaker that he would be coming to Durham for luncheon after
the talk at Shaw. And I would ask him if he would give about fifteen
minutes talk to the community leaders. And they would all agree to it.
And they would have a question and answer period afterwards. And those
were the first forums between blacks and whites. Long before Duke
started inviting the speakers that they're inviting in now.
And this was the forerunner of the exchange, the interchange of ideas
between blacks and whites in Durham. That was North Carolina Mutual.
- WALTER WEARE:
-
When they were assembled there, would they forget about race, do you
think?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
-
Well, I'm sure they were conscious of race, but at the same
time….
- WALTER WEARE:
-
Were they comfortable?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
-
Oh, yes, they were comfortable. And especially as it went along. It was
always published in the paper. There were always pictures of the group
that were made. And that's why it was considered an honor to
be invited. Because the speakers were of the calibre that you would want
to have an opportunity to talk with them.
- WALTER WEARE:
-
Would you have to be careful about a seating arrangement?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
-
No. They just took their seats wherever they wanted. I'd
always sit at the head table. Or, even before I became president,
I'd have the chairman to sit at the head of the table, and
the speaker on his right, and I'd be on his left.
- WALTER WEARE:
-
Did they ever confide in you personally after these experiences?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
-
Oh, sure! They thanked me for inviting them.
- WALTER WEARE:
-
But would they talk about the contradiction of one moment being
togehter?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
-
Oh, no, I never made it a point to discuss the matter of that. It was a
matter of an opportunity to come together and meet people, and hear
what's going on in the world, and what the current issues
are, and what's being done. How, if they're at all
being successful, what's the secret of their success and so
forth. Whatever they wanted to talk about.
- WALTER WEARE:
-
I was wondering if it had any psychological impact on race relations.
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
-
Oh, sure it was having a psychological impact, because they
were doing something freely and anxiously that they had
never done before. So it had to. And when I first started, I was always
very careful to select those who had shown some liberalism. And that was
at a time when the Durham Sun, the editor of the
Durham Sun, was down on Paris Street, and would write
his editorials on the block vote, you know, and the Paris Street Gang,
those kind of things, you know. I mean there were some very vitriolic
editorials. So I bided my time. And I'd invite Mr. Council of
the Herald to all of them. And I just was imagining
that he was wondering if he was ever going to get an invitation. So, I
don't remember who the speaker was, but it was someone that I
knew he'd be glad to meet. And he would be willing to sit
down and eat with him. I thought he would; and I extended him an
invitation. And, sure enough, he accepted it and came. And a picture was
made of that [Laughter] . And after that we
became good friends. When I was appointed to City Board of Adjustment,
the person who was chairman of the board at the time retired. I made the
motion that he be made chairman. And he was surprised. I guess you call
it, ‘door opening’ or fashioning the key to unlock
doors.