Rising assertiveness in the early twentieth-century black community
Spaulding describes the rise of some new trends in race relations in Durham, North Carolina, including expanding awareness by African Americans, many of whom were inspired by the Harlem Renaissance; greater aggressiveness on the part of black leaders like Dan Martin; and greater receptivity to black leadership by a new generation of influential white Durhamites. As he remembers Martin, Spaulding recalls the shift in political influence from local leaders who bought and sold votes to political organizations like the Durham Committee on Negro Affairs.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Asa T. Spaulding, April 16, 1979. Interview C-0013-3. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- WALTER WEARE:
-
We were talking about your experience with Harlem the other day, about
the new Negro movement, the Harlem Renaissance. Did that filter down to
Durham? Was there a feeling here that something was changing?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
-
Ch, yes. Because you see what was happening: so many blacks, even from
Columbus Country, would go to New York. And they would come back on
business, you know, the families. And that's one thing,
communications, what's going on, by word of mouth, and you
see people, and you hear about where they're working and
things they're doing: it creats an awareness.
- WALTER WEARE:
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Do you remember R. McCants Andrews?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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Ch, yes. He was the first black lawyer in Durham. First black to practice
in the Durham courts. He was a Harvard man. He didn't back up
for anything. I guess you've been told that before.
- WALTER WEARE:
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So he, McDougald—who else would be kind of leading the
way?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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Well, Dan Martin, who was one of the employees of North Carolina Mutual,
was a most astute politician. Dan Martin, after the Durham Committee was
formed, he was heading up the political division of the Committee. The
white political leaders always sought him out.
- WALTER WEARE:
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White political leaders?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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Yes. And the precinct captains and all of them. And the labor unions. And
he'd go into meetings of these politicians. And he
didn't mind using his profanity. "Damned if
we're going to do this" or "Damned if
we're going to do that" or "If you want
so-and-so, you've got to do this." And the older
whites resented it. But the younger whites saw that he could deliver.
And that was the beginning of the different groups here. At that time,
back in the thirties, the politics in Durham was controlled by a very
small group of whites. And the city council was controlled by one
man.
- WALTER WEARE:
-
Who was he?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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John Sprunt Hill. You've heard that, haven't you?
And employees of his in his diverse businesses
would run. And he'd back them financially.
- WALTER WEARE:
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This is Watts Hill's father?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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Young Watts Hill's grandfather.
- WALTER WEARE:
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Yes.
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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Watts Hill, Sr.'s father. And then Percy Reid, who was the
county attorney, had a large following. And the Bryants were very
strong. So you'd have a group of people who more or less
determined the politics in this community.
- WALTER WEARE:
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So Martin would go to them?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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When Martin came upon the scene, there was a clash between him and his
group and them. And then an alliance was formed with the later labor
union, a coalition. And they began to get more and more power. And then
when they got enough power to unseat the county chairman.
- WALTER WEARE:
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This condition was between the labor union…?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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And the Durham blacks.
- WALTER WEARE:
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The Durham Committee on Negro Affairs.
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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Yes. And they unseated the chairman of the democratic party, and put a
younger, more liberal person in.
- WALTER WEARE:
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Who was that, do you remember?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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Leslie Atkins. I don't remember whether he was the first one
or not. But he was in the early ones. I think he would be first of the
younger breed to become the chairman of the democratic committee.
- WALTER WEARE:
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Are both blacks and whites in these labor unions cooperating in this
coalition, or is it just black workers?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
-
Now, I don't mean that they had one hundred percent
cooperation, but by this coalition they got enough of them with the
black vote to elect X number of people. The
majority, where they got so strong they were able to more or less
determine how the election would go.
- WALTER WEARE:
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The Durham Committee is established in what, 1935?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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1935, I think it was. '35 or '38, but I think it
was '35.
- WALTER WEARE:
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Now you say the precursor to this was people like McDougald, Dan Martin
and others?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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No, no, no. They were in it when it was formed.
- WALTER WEARE:
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But in the twenties?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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Oh, earlier. Well, you had Buck Waller, who was a black and ran a meat
market. And his market was up here on Fayetteville Street. And others up
in West Durham area. Spotted around in different areas, who had a
following. Businessmen would all go there. You know how people would
gather to discuss things. And each one, if he controlled twenty-five or
fifty votes, after all. Because the number of people who turned out and
voted were not spectacular numbers, at that time. A guy could pick up
twenty-five, fifty, or a hundred votes that way.
- WALTER WEARE:
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Now there's a distinction to be made here between the meat
market man and somebody like Andrews.
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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Yeah, and McDougald and Martin.
- WALTER WEARE:
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The meat market man is a ward heeler who's selling votes.
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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Well, the Durham Committee, that was one of its ironclad policies:
we're not for sale. We will vote for you if you take the
positions that we stand for.
- WALTER WEARE:
-
If there's any one person in the black community who would get
credit for the Durham Committee, would it be this man, Martin?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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Well, everybody recognized him as being chairman of the political
committee, and they followed his recommendations pretty closely.
See, the Committee was divided into subcommittees.
They had the political arm, and he was chairman of that political arm.
He has stood up in some of these meetings and had some pretty hot
clashes with the older heads. I remember one meeting he was in, and one
of the older white political leaders—there was some position
they were taking on something. Martin was opposed to it, and one of them
was for it. And he, Martin, stood up and said, "I'm
going to use all the influence I have to defeat it." And this
white man made the mistake of saying, "Well, you'd
better wait until you get some influence," He didn't
know how much he had [Laughter] .
- WALTER WEARE:
-
Martin said this to him?
- ASA T. SPAULDING:
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The white politician didn't know how much influence Martin
had. But when the results were in, he found out.