Advocating for women's issues in law
Gerber talks about how her experiences in law school and as a lawyer for Legal Aid led her to believe even more firmly in the importance of women's issues. In particular, she focuses on offering advice to young women becoming lawyers, arguing that in addition to belonging to the regular bar, they should also embrace women's organizations, such as the North Carolina Association for Women Attorneys, which she helped to found. In addition, she describes what she sees as issues of particular important to women in the law, such as cases about family and parenting.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Ellen W. Gerber, February 18 and March 24, 1992. Interview C-0092. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- KRISTEN L. GISLASON:
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What about any advice for a young female attorney entering the legal
profession?
- ELLEN W. GERBER:
-
Well, we haven't talked about one area, and that relates to
this advice and that is, law schools almost all have women in law
organizations. I think they're very important. The fact that
we have almost 50% women in law schools, does not obviate the need to
have a group that you can identify with and start building systematic
ties. I am a big, big believer in being part of the regular bar, you
know, I go to bar meetings, I've taken part, I serve on
committees, you know I think that's important for anybody and
it's part of service. And, you know, I believe that if
you're a professional, that you have to relate to
your profession as an institution in addition to
doing your work for your clients.
But the need for people to focus on women's issues is still
there. Sexism has not disappeared and the legal status of women, while
it's improved a lot, there are still many things, many issues
of importance, that are more important to women than to others. Choice
is a good example. You know, issues of choice? Issues of family law, I
mean God knows that in the next two decades we're going to be
focusing on this issue, of when is a parent a parent. And while that of
course is an issue for the male and the female, it is primarily a
woman's issue, because its women who are bearing these kids,
whether they're inseminated, or surrogate parents, or the
person who wants the custody, and the child, you know, those are
enormously interesting issues. Interesting lesbian issues, you know,
what happens now when you've got two lesbians and one of them
has a kid? I mean there are all kinds of lawsuits these days about
visiting rights to these, you know, two lesbians getting together, and
they decide, we'll have a kid, and one of them has it, and
the other one thinks, I'm a co-parent, and then they split
up. What are the rights and obligations of that co-parent? These are
women's focused issues and they've got to be dealt
with. And so, we need this now.
In the years since I got out of law school, and I was part of this group,
we founded the North Carolina Association of Women Attorneys and that
group has become very vital over the years. It is an important group, it
has lobbied the legislature-equitable distribution. I personally sat in
Marissa Schoolmaker's office with another woman attorney and
drafted the original legislation of that now. It was modified of course,
but, you know, and I did that as then president of the North Carolina
Association of Women Attorneys. We lobbied that issue successfully, and
that was ours, the women attorneys, we're the ones that got
that passed and there are other issues like that. In North Carolina up
until a couple years ago, if you owned property in
joint tenancy, the male was entitled to all of the rents and profits.
It's absurd, you know, a man in jail could throw his wife out
of the house and install his girlfriend, which is what happened in this
state because the law gave him the right to control that home, so we got
that abolished by legislative lobbying.
That organization has been important to say on judges. It supports people
who judge, endorsements and all kinds of things. My advice to women
graduating from law school is to be active in organizations like that,
both locally and state-wide. Don't say, I've made
it, I'm here, I'm equal, there's no
such thing as a woman lawyer, I'm a lawyer. I believe that in
the logic, important sense, but in the political sense of getting the
kind of solidarity and support that makes us count, that gives us a
bigger voice than the legislature, that allows us to do something,
you've got to have groups. I mean, that's why you
have an AMA, you know, doctors are people too, right, but they have a
strong lobbying organization in Congress, everybody does, and women
don't have a lobbying organization, except for us. You know,
we need to work on things like that, and so you can't come
out of college, [and say] I made it, I wasn't discriminated,
I got here on my own, I'm a bright young woman and
I've got a career ahead of me, and why do I need
women's organizations for?
The answer is you need them because we open the doors to begin with, and
we're going to open other doors, the battle isn't
over and women have to learn that the same way that blacks have to learn
it. Some of the most noted black activists I know mourn that their
children are uninterested in these causes. They say, well, we
don't have those laws that didn't allow us to walk
on the side of the street, and you know, they're all gone,
those Jim Crow laws. But the truth is, it isn't just laws,
laws have to be interpreted, they have be enforced, they have to be
changed, you know, its an evolving process that will never stop. And
maybe in a century we'll have more equality than we do now,
but we do not have it yet by a long shot. And these large numbers of
very bright wonderful women graduating from law
school owe it to their foremothers to keep on fighting for us, and that
means banding together and getting in place to do that sort of thing. It
means running for the legislature, it means really stepping out in front
and realizing that in addition, and this is the kind of speech that the
judges like to give to lawyers, you know, you owe service. When you get
sworn in in the ceremony and in most counties, they have a big ceremony
for everybody at once in the fall so, you know, 40, 50 lawyers get sworn
in at once, and the presiding judge always makes nice speeches about
service and stuff like that. Well, that's real. That is real.
That is something lawyers, professionals have an obligation for service,
maybe everyone does, but I can't speak to everyone. I think
we would have a better country if we all were more community minded. But
I would speak to the women and say, when you're coming out of
law school remember that obligation of service, and if you
don't care about women, who else is going to? So others may
do something else, others may build houses for the poor, others may
serve on corporate boards, and that's fine, I have nothing
against that, and maybe women ought to do that too, but don't
forget our special needs.