Executive and legislative branches struggle for power
Holshouser remembers his attempts to defuse some of the tension that had existed between the office of the governor and the General Assembly. He sought to create a space where legislators could feel comfortable with their influence but in which they could not exert undue control. As he recalls his effort to navigate this power struggle, he reflects on another: that which springs from partisanship.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with James E. Holshouser Jr., March 13, 1998. Interview C-0328-2. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- JACK FLEER:
-
Let's turn to discuss your relationship with the General
Assembly. You said in a speech in 1973 to the General Assembly,
"I have been here and because of that I believe in the General
Assembly". What did you have in mind with that
statement?
- JAMES E. HOLSHOUSER, JR.:
-
Well, I had been in the General Assembly enough to know that there was
always a kind of tension between the legislature and the executive
branch. It didn't have anything to do with political parties.
A lot of people felt like the legislature didn't really have
the authority that it was suppose to have under the state constitution.
That you appropriate money and you left town and you never knew whether
the governor really spent it the way you said or not because there was
some flexibility in moving money around and still is. And there was
always the feeling that the governor was trying to run the show all by
himself and that we were just sort of temporary pawns in the game of
things. And I guess having coming in the legislature, out the
legislature, I thought that probably I could help bridge the gap a
little bit. I met the legislature at a preconvening thing they had I
think in December. I can't remember exactly where it was
except it wasn't in Raleigh. It was in Chapel Hill or Durham
some place I believe. I told them then as long as we didn't
worry about who got the credit that we would get along just fine. And I
found that through out the whole administration, that if I
didn't go out promoting everything that Jim Holshouser had
done, that that was pretty much true. So we set out a plan because we
didn't have near enough Republicans to be in control. As it
turns out in the 1974 election, we lost down
to next to nothing. But I also knew that I had to be reasonably careful
not to have the legislature think that it could run the state government
from a distance some how. I had the advantage that I had worked with
them and they knew that they could believe me when I told them
something. That I wouldn't play games with them. I think that
was sort of the rock around which everything else had to be built. They
also knew that I had been over there long enough to know enough about
the government that I wasn't going to have to be watch dogged
all of the time. I was a little bit disappointed but not surprised that
some partisan stuff reared its head during that first session.
Didn't much after that. There was near to taking away the
authority of the governor to appoint the state board of elections and in
turn appoint county boards. Somebody, I have never known how, got me a
copy of some correspondences between some Democrat politicians and
legislators saying how some stuff ought to be done and we
aren't going to keep control over the election process.
Growing up in the mountains you are already paranoid about because there
are just too many stories of elections having been stolen. One of the
big, the biggest, applause-getter during the primaries in particular in
the spring when I was campaigning particularly west of Charlotte. They
would talk about isn't it going to be great to have a
Republican governor appointing the Board of Elections' people
to make sure the elections are honest. That just drove them wild.
- JACK FLEER:
-
So you had raised people's awareness and desires, so to
speak.
- JAMES E. HOLSHOUSER, JR.:
-
Well, the awareness and desire was there but you let them know you
understood. But we were also fortunate that there was some people around
who understood that what the proposals were going to be far worse than
turning the reins over to the Republican Board of Elections'
people. And people like Ed Rankin who had been the
Administrative Assistant to Governor Hodges and head of the Citizens
Association came down to Raleigh to testify before a committee that it
was not a good idea. I went over and testified and told them that I
could understand their temptation but that wasn't in the best
interest of the state. And we beat that down with a couple of other
things on appointments. But that was sort of this little circus that was
going on to the side. It was just sort of a potential distraction but
the main game was still going on in terms of programmatic
activities.
- JACK FLEER:
-
Did you think that circus as you called it was motivated by partisanship
or by institutional differences or something else?
- JAMES E. HOLSHOUSER, JR.:
-
Strictly partisanship. That wasn't legislature verses the
governor. And during the last two years of the term the hardest fights
were protecting the institution, the office of the governor from
invasion by the legislature. Jim Hunt as Lt. Governor and members of the
Council of the State helped head those off as a group. And not
necessarily totally altruistically. Jim Hunt was counting on being the
next governor and the Council of the State people didn't want
people meddling in their departments too much. So I lucked out
again.
- JACK FLEER:
-
Did that occur in discussion with you or did those people act independent
of you in trying to put that down?
- JAMES E. HOLSHOUSER, JR.:
-
We didn't have any smoked filled rooms. I talked with several
Council of State people myself and said I am counting on you being
interested enough in your department to see that this doesn't
happen. Jim Hunt and I talked and said this is just not good for the
state, not good for the office of the governor. You may well be the next
governor you ought to make sure that this doesn't happen.