A university restructuring becomes entangled in politics
Scott describes the difficulty posed by the restructuring of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. The process became so entangled in politics, Scott thinks, that the educational value of the restructuring entirely eroded.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Robert W. (Bob) Scott, February 11, 1998. Interview C-0336-2. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- JACK FLEER:
-
Could you take one of those issues that you thought were important and
give me some insight into how you went about developing a policy and
securing support for the policy in the legislature? Say, the
tobacco tax, or the university restructuring? I know those
are two very big and somewhat contentious issues that you dealt
with.
- ROBERT W. (BOB) SCOTT:
-
I don't know. I think the policy was determined before it ever
went to the legislature. That is to say, I didn't talk to
legislative leadership and say, "I'm thinking about
doing this", for the most part, I didn't. I guess
that was not true, though, with the restructuring of the university
system, because I knew that would take legislative action and a
constitutional amendment. So I think we talked—it
wasn't so much about whether to do it or not, as how best to
do it.
- JACK FLEER:
-
Now, is this the restructuring of the university, or the restructuring of
the executive branch of government?
- ROBERT W. (BOB) SCOTT:
-
The restructuring of the university. I don't think that would
ever have happened, I don't think I would ever have been able
to get that accomplished, except that these friends at the university
who opposed that—at the University of Chapel
Hill, who opposed that—they
didn't think it could be done. They in their wildest dreams
didn't think it could happen. And so they didn't
get stirred up about it until they saw it was about to happen, and it
was—I wouldn't say it was too late,
but it certainly was helpful to me, because they didn't
engage in the battle earlier on, to a great extent. Now, I'm
not really sure how to answer that question.
- JACK FLEER:
-
Well, for example, on the university restructuring, there were a number
of different options that were considered, and you had, if I recall
correctly, a sort of study commission headed by Lindsay Warren, who came
forth with a proposal. I assume the selection of that study commission
was an important part of the process of trying to, not only develop a
proposal, but develop support for the proposal. Is that
fair?
- ROBERT W. (BOB) SCOTT:
-
Well, yes. I was hoping, of course, to find a way to bring sort of a
consensus on what this new structure needed to look like, and trying to
get—through my public appearances and speeches, I
talked about the need to do it. And then of course, getting the
public's attention, and in effect saying, "Well,
yeah, it looks like there ought to be a better way of doing what
we're doing now." And then the legislators picked
that up from the public, and they want to respond to that on the part of
the public, so they're interested enough to talk about it,
willing to talk about it, and the question is, how?
And my original thought was that, in the perfect world, and on that
issue, I would have patterned it pretty much after the University of
Georgia's Board of Regents, which was a small
compact group. Well, as the political process began, it was
quickly apparent that that wasn't going to work, because we
had too many vested interests out there, at the second-tier
institutions, like athletics at Pembroke and others, that they wanted to
be sure they were represented on any kind of governing board. Well, to
get the vote of the minority party, you had to
guarantee—back in those days, there was a lot of
guaranteeing seats, Republicans, minorities, women, that kind of thing.
And I was trying to get the state Board of Higher Education and the
university people, the greater university people, to find some common
ground. Lindsay Warren was a highly respected individual in the General
Assembly, a man that I always thought would have made a great governor,
and he was in the state Senate.
And so, you know, one of the ways you do things, if you don't
know what to do, is appoint a study commission. That's why
that came. And we tried to put people on there that had the respect of
the various interest groups concerned, the universities held them in
high respect and the members of the legislature held them in high
respect. And they had Senator Kirby of Wilson, also, he was chair of the
Senate higher education committee at the time. He was a proponent of
doing something to restructure the university system. He also had a lot
of respect among the legislators, as well as outside.
So I was hoping that whatever this group came up with, if it was
something I could live with, then it would be a package to be
considered. In that sense, yeah, I knew that I couldn't just
make a frontal assault on the legislature. Although it got down
to that, at the end. At the end, in the final days
of that, the educational merits of the issue were just long gone, it was
purely political, who's going to win.
- JACK FLEER:
-
As I recall, some of these discussions occurred in the regular session of
the legislature, but then you and the legislators agreed to wait for a
special session later in the summer, or early fall, probably October.
Was that because you didn't have the support at the time, or
was it just too much for the legislature to deal with in the
regular—?
- ROBERT W. (BOB) SCOTT:
-
Some of both. It was a lot to deal with. But part of it was a delaying
tactic. The opponents did not want to have a special session, they
simply wanted to put it off till the next regular session. And I would
have been out of office, and I knew that nothing would happen
[unclear]
, nothing would happen if they delayed it until I
went out of office. So when we didn't have the votes to deal
with it then, the legislature, we all knew it was going to be an
emotional issue, long-drawn-out, and they didn't want to take
it on right then. And this was a compromise worked out with the
lieutenant governor and the speaker of the house, that we would call a
special session.
Now, in between times, of course, I kept lobbying for it, and when we did
have the special session, we had meetings of key legislators over at the
mansion, you know. There was one late-night thing that went on until
after midnight. Bill Friday was there, and
[unclear]
And I couldn't get the lieutenant governor, Pat
Taylor—he was caught between a rock and a hard
place. He was a graduate of Chapel Hill law school, really had a
tremendous number of friends putting awful
pressure on him to not go forward with this. And I never could get him
to make up his mind or to agree to go with it until right at the last,
and he finally did, but I understood his position. He was trying
to—because he was thinking about running for
governor. And he did run for governor. So it was an issue that there was
no way I could help.