Reflecting on his failed effort to retake the governorship in 1980
Trying to retake the governorship in 1980 was "a dumb mistake," according to Scott. New arrivals in the state had no idea who he was, and he was running against an incumbent able to take advantage of new rules allowing governors to run for reelection. Scott weighs this new rule and the rule change giving the governor the veto, as well as governors' authority to hire and fire.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Robert W. (Bob) Scott, February 11, 1998. Interview C-0336-2. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- JACK FLEER:
-
Now, you did in fact decide to run in 1980 for governor, against the
incumbent governor, Jim Hunt. Could you talk a little bit about that
decision and that experience, in terms of its impact upon the well-being
of the Democratic party in the state?
- ROBERT W. (BOB) SCOTT:
-
I'll take the last part of that first. I don't know
what impact, if any, it had upon the Democratic party; I suspect very
little. In retrospect, politically, it was a dumb mistake. There was
really no reason any rational person would, unless
[unclear]
—there's no
reason that any person—politically that had
experience would try that. Two things I think had occurred. First of
all, I had been out of politics a little bit, and I'd gone to
Washington and worked in the Carter administration for
two years as party chair of the Appalachian Regional
Commission. And I didn't realize how much the state was
changing demographically, the influx of people coming in from other
states who were not Southern Democrats, and we often said that a
Northern Republican and a Southern Democrat were about the same thing.
But I didn't realize how much it was changing. It was brought
home to me during the campaign, when I was on the campus of Central
Piedmont Community College in Charlotte. And—how
many years had it been since I'd left the
governor's office?
- JACK FLEER:
-
Eight years.
- ROBERT W. (BOB) SCOTT:
-
Eight years. And nobody knew who I was! And I began to realize then that
there were an awful lot of people who, if they hadn't moved
into the state, they'd become of voting age, that eight years
was a lot—that's a sizeable chunk of
the electorate. Now, another reason, though, that I wanted to run, or
one of the reasons that I wanted to run, was not a valid reason to run
for anything. I really kind of wanted to test the power of the
incumbency. And I found out very quickly. But it was not only the
incumbency; Jim Hunt just had far better organizational skills, he had a
tight organization, well under control, and I was never very much of a
control person. All the people that I had had supporting me had gone on
to other things; a good number of them were Jim Hunt people. And it
caused them considerable heartburn that I would come back and try to run
again. And I hadn't really thought it through, I guess. So I
started—it was a dumb thing to do. Halfway
through the campaign, I realized that I had made a
mistake. But you're in it; you have to swim as much as you
can, as hard as you can.
- JACK FLEER:
-
Now, that particular decision, of course, was taken in the context of a
very important change in the office of the governorship, that is the
right of a governor to seek reelection. Of course, you didn't
have that option whenever you were in the position. And in addition to
that, since you've left the office, the office of governor
has been given the veto power, very recently. As you think about your
own administration and the four years that you have served, do you think
of any differences it would have made if yoiu had been given either of
those authorities as governor? Are those important changes in
the office of the governor?
- ROBERT W. (BOB) SCOTT:
-
They are. They're fundamental. You know, one can only
speculate what one would do, if they had the opportunity to run again
and if they had the veto power. I think the opportunity to run again
would have impacted perhaps some of the decisions in my first term as
governor. Everything I said and everything I did would have been
predicated on how it's going to play in the next election.
Not everything, but most major things. I perhaps would not have been
quite as bold and daring; I may not have ventured asking for a tobacco
tax, because there was a block of voters I probably got, by and large,
in the first go-round, because of my agricultural background and because
of my dad. But I sure as heck wouldn't have gotten them in
the next go-round. So I would have been thinking about the next
election. That's a negative to giving two terms. The other
side of that coin is that you strive mightily to
do good in your first term so you'll earn the
voters' support for the next election. So I don't
know whether one offsets the other or not.
Perhaps Ben Moore intended to strengthen the party, particularly if they
had been aware of the rising tide of the Republican party,
[unclear]
the possibility of me being elected. As far as
the veto part is concerned, it wouldn't have made as much
difference then as it probably would now, particularly because you had a
legislature of the same party. Now, that is, with the two-party system
in the state, I think it's well the governor does have the
veto power.
The two-party system we talked about a moment ago is fine, and
I'm all for that, provided it doesn't lead to
gridlock, and one can't predict that, really. If
it's so close that there's
gridlock—and we saw it happen in Congress, we
haven't seen it in the state, but obviously the smoothness
and the rapidity with which legislation is acted is adversely effected
by that having one house Democratic and one house Republican. It would
be far better to the entire legislature one party.
- JACK FLEER:
-
Of course, those two things, the veto and the right of succession, were
absent when you were governor. Were there other powers or authorities
that you would have hoped for as governor, that would have helped you be
a more effective governor?
- ROBERT W. (BOB) SCOTT:
-
I think the governor can do a better job being an administrator if the
appointments that he or she makes would be at the pleasure of the
governor rather than for a specified term. You appoint a person for a
specified term, of course, they're
there, and there's not much you can do about it.
It's very awkward and cumbersome, time-consuming process to
remove—have to be removed for cause. The governor
can't just say, "Listen, I thought you were going to
do a better job than you're doing, and you're not,
so I'm going to ask you to step down." You
can't do that on most appointments.
I don't think it's—the big
change that I see from that time till now, of course, is the fact that
the legislature has involved itself more and more in the affairs of the
executive branch, one of which is to say that they, the legislators, are
going to be represented on most these boards that are appointed,
commissions that are appointed. In fact, they almost dominate some of
them. Well, that's the executive branch's role, as
I see it, unless it's the committee set up by the
administration itself. But they want their presence made on all those
boards. And I'm not an attorney, but I think that that
becomes a constitutional issue. It did
become—
- JACK FLEER:
-
It did, in the 1980s, the separation of powers issue.
- ROBERT W. (BOB) SCOTT:
-
Right. And I think that's still there, I think the
legislature's skating real close to the edge when they insist
on getting on these executive branch boards. The veto power probably
will come more and more into use as we get used to it.