Comparing the merits of gradual versus direct change in race relations
Johnson discusses the differing approaches to changing race relations of gradualism and non-gradualism. According to Johnson, her husband endorsed an approach of gradualism in his capacity as a leader of the Southern Regional Council, which did not overtly support desegregation until 1954. Johnson argues that while this approach had its merits, she tended to believe that sometimes a more direct approach to change is necessary. In order to support her stance, Johnson cites her work towards establishing a childcare center for African American children in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, during World War II.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Guion Griffis Johnson, July 1, 1974. Interview G-0029-4. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- GUION JOHNSON:
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No, no, they did not endorse desegregation. And I do not think that the
Southern Regional Council took any very positive stand on segregation or
desegregation until 1954. I may be wrong, but this is my recollection,
that they did not openly endorse [desegregation], although many research
reports were made pointing to the penalty which the South paid because
of its maintenance of segregation . . .
- MARY FREDERICKSON:
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Of the dual system?
- GUION JOHNSON:
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Yes.
- MARY FREDERICKSON:
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Was Guy's feeling one of waiting? I read his article in
Common Ground answering Lillian Smith, was his one of
waiting?
- GUION JOHNSON:
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Gradualism. His philosophy at that time was one of gradualism. That you
cannot force the change upon an unwilling people. That it must be by
enlightenment and education, that you gradually get a change and any
change that comes gradually rather than quickly or dramatically is the
change that is lasting. That has been his position. I have not always
agreed with him on the philosophy of gradualism. I think there comes a
time when some dramatic change must be made. And my own experiences
have illustrated that. For example, I tried to
get during the war, when I was with OCD, [the community] to open a child
care center, to get it set up in Chapel Hill to take care of the
children of working mothers, and, of course, those would be the black
children. And was bitterly blocked by a woman leader in Chapel Hill and
everytime I set up a little conference calling for national . . . (You
know, we would get national funds for this and I got one of the national
leaders in from Washington from the State Department of Public
Instruction and the head of Education Department here and the social
workers here and we had this little meeting just to explore it, and) oh,
she was violent in her opposition. And the OPA Board was meeting in the
Town Hall, when the sirens, the fire siren, sounded and we ran to the
window to look out, because we saw that it was toward Potter's Field,
which is in the black community, and we saw the flames leaping up, and
we scurried around trying to find out what the trouble was and where the
fire was, and Mr. Moody Durham, who was chairman of the OPA came back,
and his face was very grave and he said, "I'm sorry to tell
you, three little Negro children have been burned to death in that
fire." I said, "Find out more about it." And
I found out that the mother had been working in a prominent home and had
not been able to get anyone to take care of her children that day and
she had locked the children in the house, with the seven year old, and
there were two younger children, and that the seven year old had
apparently gotten hungry, and it was cold, and she had tried to start a
fire with kerosene and had apparently thrown the kersone on to the coals
and had had an explosion and the house burned down and the children
couldn't get out because the door was locked. And the mother had been
detained by her employers because they were having a big party. So, I
came home and wrote a story that night and called the news bureau. Bob
Maddry was head of the news bureau and was also mayor of the town, and I
said, "Bob, we are going to have that child care center. This
makes it - the fact that three little children were burned to
death because there was no one to take care of
them - makes it possible." He said, "O.K., give me your
story and I'll get it out." And he got it out on the wire,
saying that because of this, (he told the story of the children burning
and said that because of) the death of these three children, Chapel Hill
had spontaneously risen up demanding that a child care program be
started. And so, as soon as the story hit the paper, I had a telephone
call from this woman who was very angrily denouncing me, "You
have no right! you have no authority!" And I said,
"You have no authority to stop me." And she said,
"What do you mean, exceeding your authority?" And I
said, "You are not the person whom I knew many years ago. You
have had a serious personality deterioration." And she said,
"Well, good-by, good-by." And as she was saying
good-by, I said, "You will not oppose
me." And we got the program started.
- MARY FREDERICKSON:
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Could she at that point have opposed you?
- GUION JOHNSON:
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She could have tried to use her influence in the community and she had a
great deal of influence. Her husband was a very prominent lawyer, a
member of the law faculty. He was highly respected and greatly beloved
and she would have had a great deal. [of influence] She was a member of
the power structure.
- MARY FREDERICKSON:
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And did the child care center go through?
- GUION JOHNSON:
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Yes, I got it [the initiating procedures] going and then had to go off to
Atlanta. But others carried through on it, but at least I got the forces
going. And with Bob Maddry, the mayor backing me, I knew that it would
go through. He said that he would support me and [I should] he would
carry through and just go on and teach history in the University and he
said that he would carry through. He said, "I'll do it, I don't
want her to try to chop your head off anymore." But, we got it
going. So, that's the reason that I have disagreed with Guy. I think
that sometimes, there must be . . . if I had waited
and used the gradual approach, it would have been many years before we
had any child care agencies in Chapel Hill. Now, we have many child care
agencies.