Robert Williams's family history of empowerment
Williams roots Robert's passionate, even violent, dedication to civil rights in his long family history of strength, tracing his ancestry back to his biracial, literate slave mother. She reflects, too, on racial mingling and the drop of blood that can draw the line between white and black.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Mabel Williams, August 20, 1999. Interview K-0266. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- DAVID CECELSKI:
-
But one sees something more behind that. And what do you think
someone's going to see? What was behind the shotgun? What
kind of—what would be good to see in Robert?
- MABEL WILLIAMS:
-
I think they would see a person who really knows that one person can
make a difference. One person standing up can definitely make a
difference. In not only his life but in the lives of other people. And
that that one person—. Rob believed that we all had that
responsibility. That everybody's born for something.
Everybody is here for a purpose. And that we—. Some people
live their lives and they just eat, and sleep and die and never do
anything. They don't have any causes. They don't
have any purpose. And they think that there is no purpose. Maybe the
purpose is just to get money, have a good time, play.
- DAVID CECELSKI:
-
They certainly don't have anything that they're
willing to die for.
- MABEL WILLIAMS:
-
Nothing that they're willing to die for. But you should have
something that you're willing to die for that gives you a
reason to live.
- DAVID CECELSKI:
-
That's a nice way to put it.
- MABEL WILLIAMS:
-
And I think that that was the legacy, one of the legacies that he left.
And I remember one newspaper article during the time that Robert had
said about self-defense. One newspaper article came out and said that he
was advocating the indiscriminate killing of white babies in their
cribs. Now you know that was horrible. Making people think that this
man—. Here's a crazy man out here who is trying to
get all the white folks killed. That was just to mobilize white folks
against him. And against what was going on that was really the right
thing in the society to be happening at the time. So—
- DAVID CECELSKI:
-
Where did he get that kind of—?
- MABEL WILLIAMS:
-
I think it was passed down through his grandmother, his grandfather and
all the way down from slavery. His grandmother came out of slavery
literate, knowing how to read and write. Having been the offspring of a
white slave master and a black slave. His grandfather came out of
slavery knowing how to read and write. And determined to teach their
children that they were as good as anybody on this earth. And that they
should stand up for what was right and good. And I think
that's another thing that the white south, and white Monroe
especially, has not lived up to. I remember I was talking to
Robert's brother right before I came here. He still lives in
Detroit and he's eight years old. And he remembers going into
Sechrest Drug Store in Monroe, and one of the clerks coming up to his
daddy. He was a little boy with his daddy. And the clerk came up to his
daddy and said, "John you know we're
cousins." This white clerk said to Robert's father,
"John, you know we're cousins. But don't
tell anybody," you know. So my eighty-year
old brother-in-law remembers that to this day. But those family members,
family members would never accept the fact that—like I
said—we're all one family even though
we're black and white.
- DAVID CECELSKI:
-
They don't want to treat people like family.
- MABEL WILLIAMS:
-
They don't want to treat people like family. And they refuse
to acknowledge the fact that they're family because
we're so different because we have that one bit of black
blood, you know, that makes us black.
- DAVID CECELSKI:
-
Right. So you think—. Robert had this way back and his
grandmother, I understand, was his special—
- MABEL WILLIAMS:
-
Oh yeah, was his special person that he loved and taught him about world
events and got him interested in reading newspapers early on. And, yeah,
she was a very—-. And handed him a rifle that his grandfather
had used way back, and a musket-loaded rifle, which I still have.
- DAVID CECELSKI:
-
Do you?
- MABEL WILLIAMS:
-
Yes, yes.
- DAVID CECELSKI:
-
That's [unclear] .
- MABEL WILLIAMS:
-
Yes. So his brother also told me that his grandmother looked white. And
he said one day a white insurance man came by and said to his
grandmother, "Are you the only white family in this nigger
neighborhood?" And said she looked at him and said,
"Don't you ever say that to me again. I am not
white. I am black. And this is not a nigger neighborhood. This is a
black neighborhood." [Laughter]
- DAVID CECELSKI:
-
Good for her. Lucky he didn't get shot.
- MABEL WILLIAMS:
-
Yes. He's lucky he didn't get shot. I remember
reading some report when one of Robert's aunts was visited by
the FBI. And he wrote that she was more—she was worse than
Robert after Robert had left Monroe. She said, "Well this is a
no-good town." And she should've burned the damn
town down. That was one of the direct descendants of this grandmother,
her daughter, who made that—. Aunt Cora. She was really a
wonderful person, too. But, yeah, he got—. He had a tradition
of struggle and of anger at the society for refusing to recognize people
as people. And I think that's—. Robert
didn't like to talk about it. His older brother John would
talk about it. But Robert didn't like to talk about that
connection. So he wouldn't talk about it very much. But his
older brother would.
- DAVID CECELSKI:
-
I wonder why not? [unclear]
- MABEL WILLIAMS:
-
I told him that he wanted to deny that portion of his—that
German stubborn portion of his heritage. And he would only claim the
black portion [Laughter] because they
denied him. I think that's the reason why. And he
didn't like that part of it. But, you know, that's
a reality that we face. That is a reality when you start to go back and
research and find—. I don't remember which
president said it was the most inhumane form of slavery he'd
ever seen because people were selling their own sons and daughters into
slavery. And the south knew that they were doing that. They knew that
they—. They knew and they have never faced up to that fact.
They have never faced up. Monroe has never faced up to the fact.