Refuting Sears's work
Baker refutes the things James Sears had said about the homosexuals involved in the Chapel Hill protests and begins describing the ways Sears had misused the interview they had done. He continues to list discrepancies for several minutes after the end of this passage.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Quinton E. Baker, February 23, 2002. Interview K-0838. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
Jim Sears, let's talk about his work
[Quinton moans indicating his disdain] and what he has done. When were
you approached and was it, when were you approached and what was
written? And let's talk about your thoughts on this.
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
Okay, I was approached, James Sears approached me, I don't
remember the date prior to the book, but he approached me because Pat
had suggested that he—
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
Was this after you had moved to North Carolina?
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
Oh yeah, I was here. This was here [Hillsborough]
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
Early mid 90s?
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
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I guess mid 90s, I don't. I think it was mid 90s, when did he
do this book?
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
May have even been in the 80s
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
in 97, so he must have approached me in 96—95, 96. He came
here and he had a.
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
Was it similar to the interview that we are doing now?
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
Yes, he was at the Holiday Inn in Chapel Hill. He had a room. I agreed to
meet him there and we did the interview and we did the conversation. I
would not have talked to Jim Sears, I had no interest of doing the
interview, whatsoever, and the only reason that I talked to him was
because Pat suggested that I should do him, talk to him. Pat thought
that it was important, he thought that it was an important issue that we
get out there. Pat has been very out and political as a gay person in
Boston for the last, I don't know, the past, I
don't know, eleven years, twelve years or so.
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
Oh, okay, so he is someone who actually transferred those skills to the
gay rights movement.
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
Yeah, but he is still very much involved in community action and is still
very much involved in civil rights and the issues of poverty, it is just
that he is just very much out and makes it a part of his work, in that
process. I simply, and so I responded to Pat. James, Jim Sears came, he
did the interview, we talked, I thought that it was a fairly decent
interview, I tried to tell him, pretty much, similar to what we had done
here, a little bit more history about growing up and that kind of thing
and then I read the, the Galleys, and I sent him a note back saying that
this is not an accurate description of my life and what I told
you—
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
What was inaccurate about it?
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
In order to give it more, I don't know, Interest or color,
there were things that he said about my father, about my family working
that wasn't true that I didn't say, how he
described them, I don't remember. Oh, let's see
[Quinton pages through his book].
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
Did you make any notes in that while you were reading it?
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
No, I didn't, because I never read the book. Once I read the
other thing, I just said, "Forget it."
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
Right.
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
This was not a passion of mine; this was not something that I wanted to
have happen. I was doing him a favor. I also felt that he lied because
when he came back to do some work on [pause]
See, this is the thing, he says, "My father had been
convicting of assault and battery." That is not true.
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
Oh my goodness.
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
My father had gone to prison, he had been convicted, but it was not
assault and battery.
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
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That is a pretty big thing. [Laughter]
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
Yeah, yeah.
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
What had your father gone for?
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
I had forgotten what it was now.
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
But it wasn't assault and battery?
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
It wasn't assault and battery, no. And, I don't
know.
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
Were there other inconsistencies? You said that he was trying to make
some connection between the black civil rights movement and the
gay—
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
Yeah.
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
Did you feel that you were being lead in the interview, and in what
way?
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
Well, I never made the connections; I never made the connections that he
made in the book, once he wrote the book. It wasn't me that
was saying that there was the connections that were there. It was him
interpreting them. I am trying to find some of this stuff. [pause] No, see, "Growing up gay in
the South for Quinton's generation meant
being……Quinton's first knowledge of any
type of sexual activity between the races came through Avery, who was
making money hand over fist." I don't even know what
he is talking about. Unless he is talking about Lester and changed the
name, who was in fact, making money with—
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
Was he being a prostitute?
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
No, in those days, you know, there was this thing of—
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
You had these sugar daddies.
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
Whites would come through the neighborhood and pick up black women or
black men, whatever their proclivities, and take them off for sexual
gratification and pay them some kind of thing. It wasn't the
kind of formalized prostitution that you are thinking of, but it was
really hustling, but it was not generalized hustling, because it was
really directed toward white people in that process. And Lester used to
do some of that. But the thing is that. I mean, I do talk about them
riding through the community, but I don't know. He changed
the names of some people, because he didn't have the
permission to use their name. I don't remember, my feelings
were, and maybe I felt a little bit about Jim
Sears as I felt about, as I thought about John. My feelings about Jim
was that it was an opportunistic interview that was not so much about
protecting the truth about what it is I had to say, or the what the
truth was, it was about getting a particular point of view that he had,
and I just wasn't very comfortable with it. Also, he promised
to talk to me again about—
[END OF TAPE 2, SIDE A]
[TAPE 2, SIDE B]
[START OF TAPE 2, SIDE B]
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
I am sorry.
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
That is all right.
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
Okay, we are on the forth side of the interview with Quinton Baker, the
number for this tape is, 02.23.02-QB.4
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
I—the experience of having the interview, I guess I felt
almost as if there was almost some kind of connection or some kind of
a—
- CHRIS McGINNIS:
-
This is Jim Sears?
- QUINTON E. BAKER:
-
Jim Sears—that there was some kind of—you know he
talked about his relationship, his partner, his work, and then you
almost felt that there was some kind of trust factor that was being
built. Once the book came out and then he started—I felt
betrayed by that trust factor.