Complexities of faculty desegregation at UNC
Sitterson discusses the hiring process for black professors at UNC. Although blacks gained employment opportunities, in the desegregated South, they continued to face discriminatory employment practices. Individual departments petitioned school officials to hire black faculty. Although Sitterson endorsed recruitment of black faculty, the Board of Trustees resisted the efforts to integrate the university, creating tensions between Sitterson and his superiors.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with J. Carlyle Sitterson, November 4 and 6, 1987. Interview L-0030. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- J. CARLYLE SITTERSON:
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Well, what I would do… Well, I would, of course, inform them.
If I were keeping it a secret, that would be a terrible thing to do. If
the Administrative Office said I wasn't informing
[them]… Because this was a clear-cut issue. This
wasn't something that people weren't aware of. The
first appointments weren't at the rank of full professor.
They were at lower ranks. The first one was at the School of Social Work
which is not so surprising. Then we had some in the medical area. The
first black full professor who was appointed to the faculty was Blyden
Jackson, professor of English. He was appointed as a full professor. We
never got many, as indeed you can see right now with all the discussion
that goes on, and there are a lot of reasons for that. One, and the most
important reason quantitatively, frankly, is the shortage of qualified
black professionals, particularly in certain fields. Another one is the
faculty's own determination to be absolutely certain that
when they appoint a black faculty member that that black faculty member
is one who really qualifies in a competitive way. Whether or not
they're completely unbiased in that is a different question.
It's something you can't, can't get
into their minds. I think on the whole we've been kind of
fortunate in history in some of the black faculty we've had,
but again, we have had, in a sense, to do
sometimes injustice to whites in respect to salary and status because
the plain fact of the matter is that if you want highly-qualified
blacks, they're in very short supply. We have to beat the
market. I was amused last night. I was looking at television; I was
looking at L.A. Law. Do you ever look at that?
- PAMELA DEAN:
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Yes, I watch that also.
- J. CARLYLE SITTERSON:
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Do you see that this is exactly, I thought to myself, there it goes, the
same thing over again. In order to get this black lawyer, they would pay
him ten or twelve thousand more than people who are better
qualified.
- PAMELA DEAN:
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Or at least who didn't happen to be black.
- J. CARLYLE SITTERSON:
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That's right. That's correct. So that's
an illustration of what I was talking about. Probably one of the biggest
hassles I had with the Executive Committee of the Board of Trustees
involved the appointment, well, there were two. One involved the
appointment of Howard Lee to the School of Social Work faculty. Howard
was a public figure. At that time he was running for mayor I believe,
and the School of Social Work, the Dean, came in to talk to me about
making an appointment for him. He did not have a Ph.D degree, a
doctorate degree, and first the school proposed to appoint him at a rank
above people who were already there and who had superior qualifications.
Well, I said I wouldn't agree to that because I thought that
was unwise policy, but I would agree to appointment at an appropriate
rank and salary, and so we agreed on that. Then that got into the public
domain, somehow or another, before it was even
accomplished. I don't know who put it in the public domain. I
don't know whether some people in Social Work did or somebody
got it and decided they'd put it in the public domain, you
know. These things go on in universities all the time. So one of the
members of the Executive Committee of the Board of Trustees came to see
me and told me that I should not take that to them and not make this
appointment. Well, you see, that's the kind of thing that you
really shouldn't have at a university, an individual member
of the Board trying to…
- PAMELA DEAN:
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To dictate.
- J. CARLYLE SITTERSON:
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Yes, to dictate, or that kind of thing. So then I talked to another
member of the Executive Committee who, while not particularly approving
of the decision to do it, was cognizant of the situation and wanted to
try to find a way that we could… So finally it really got
down to the point that it was known that it was going to come before the
Executive Committee at a given time, and I decided myself, in this case,
that rank was, I think we would make a rank of lecturer or something
like that, would not have been required, but I decided that it was
prudent for me not to bypass them since it was in the public domain. So
I put it before the Executive Committee. Now, I didn't know
what the Executive Committee would do about it. But, of course, I
presented it and defended the appointment. But it was all in the public
domain, over radio and television and press and everything else while
this was going on. Because that illustrates what I was just saying about
the process of integration. The desegregation of institutions was a
complex one involving different elements and
different stages and so on that went on over a period of time and is
still going on, of course, and changing mores and so on. That was one
illustration in which, in a sense of the faculty, in this instance the
faculty of the School of Social Work, had in a sense presented the
University with, as they saw it, no problem at all. I mean, this was a
man who, as they saw it, qualified to do this and would be a valuable
staff member, and these other instances that were matters of the public
domain were not their concern. Now, another incident, again involving
the School of Social Work, involved a black activist. Again, this shows
how my memory, I can't call up these names so quickly. Howard
Fuller, I think Howard was his first name, anyway, his name is Fuller.
He was a professed black activist, but nevertheless, he had certain
qualities and experience that would make him useful for the School of
Social Work. The Dean, again, did me the courtesy, I guess you would
call it courtesy, to come in and tell me that they had decided they
would like to make this appointment, and they wanted to know what the
University would do about it. Well, I said, "If the School
decides to bring that appointment to the Chancellor, we will consider it
on its merits, just as we would any other appointment." And I
said, "But you must be aware that this is not an appointment
that will be viewed by everybody as just like any other
appointment."
- PAMELA DEAN:
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It's not just going to be routine.
- J. CARLYLE SITTERSON:
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That's right. It's not going to be routine when
some other people get to examine it. Lo and behold, the Department
did come to me, and as I do with any, and as I
presume Chancellors still do when we want to get some faculty
consideration, we take it to the Advisory Committee and let them examine
the ramifications and so on of it. We did that, and then we took it to
the Executive Committee of the Board of Trustees. And I'm
telling you, it precipitated one of the [most] bitter discussions on
that issue.
- PAMELA DEAN:
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Was it because he was black or because he was an activist?
- J. CARLYLE SITTERSON:
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I think it was primarily because he was an activist but the association
of the two certainly didn't help it any. But again, that went
through.
- PAMELA DEAN:
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Did they ever turn down?
- J. CARLYLE SITTERSON:
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Never turned down. But the thing is, I said, "Nobody knows how
much prestige and influence I lost by that." See,
that's not something you can put, it's in the
public domain. In other words, I knew good and well that the Executive
Committee, or that many members of it, let's put it that way,
I don't mean to imply that it was a unanimous view because
that certainly was not true, but certainly in the view of a substantial
number, they didn't have much use for what I was going to do
from that point on.
- PAMELA DEAN:
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This had been a white man's University since it was
established…
- J. CARLYLE SITTERSON:
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As most all American universities were.
- PAMELA DEAN:
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Exactly. And you were involved, you had to be the point man for the
changes.
- J. CARLYLE SITTERSON:
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I happened to be there at a certain time when certain great social
changes were under way.