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FRANCES HOGAN:

As an instructor of physical education. And like I told you, there were so few women students back then. And when I got here I was never so miserable. I thought it was the most boring place because at Iowa during the war, we were on a very fast program and you were covering like three semesters in two. I started teaching out there at seven in the morning and I mean, I had to walk through blizzards and everything to get there, and my first class to teach was a swimming class. It was an all day thing out there and we worked so hard and then to come here in those first few years, I just felt like I wasn't doing anything because we had so few women students. So you didn't have a whole lot of classes. I spent an awful lot of time playing tennis up there with the men's tennis team and doing stuff like that.

MARY JO FESTLE:

But then they got you involved in other things pretty quickly?

FRANCES HOGAN:

Well, I did the intramurals back then. But I was so used to such a full schedule at Iowa. But we've had some good times here and I've enjoyed it. If I had to do it all over, I'd do it the same way. But I would speak up a little more. The difference that I see now is that we didn't wait for people to tell us. You know, now if they do something extra, beyond what they're paid to do, "Well, what am I going to get if I do that?" And there's a big difference. Plus, they'll speak up more now. You know, they question salaries and they question loads and budgets and so on and you just accepted back then, particularly if you were a woman.

MARY JO FESTLE:

You were just trying to do what needed to be done.

FRANCES HOGAN:

And I'm sure the same thing that happened to the women here probably happened all across the country.

MARY JO FESTLE:

I think that that's probably true.

FRANCES HOGAN:

I don't deny that. Unless you were in an all girls' school or something like that.