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MARY JO FESTLE:

Do you think women athletes are respected more today? You know, I think they get better treatment, you know.

FRANCES HOGAN:

Oh, better treatment, better publicity, better coverage. It's not frowned upon now. Males accept women now that are very athletic. It's certainly different.

MARY JO FESTLE:

Why do you think that's changed.

FRANCES HOGAN:

I guess it changed gradually over a long period of time. I think people like Chris Evert and Nancy Lopez have made a difference. Don't you think?

MARY JO FESTLE:

Yes. I've heard people say that a lot, especially about Chris Evert.

FRANCES HOGAN:

Yes, she was a good model. Chris. I just think that our women physical educators way back were the ones who were so opposed to females doing anything on a highly competitive level.

MARY JO FESTLE:

That's strange, isn't it?

FRANCES HOGAN:

It is. And you know, just like the DGWS, they fought anything that was highly competitive. The highly skilled girl really suffered back then. I can remember that there was a student at Winthrop College. That's where I went for my undergraduate work. And her name was Godbold. She was a terrific athlete. That was an all female institution back then, and the student body thought so much of that girl that they raised the money and sent her to the Olympics. She won several gold medals, but at that point in time, see, the school couldn't send her, and it was unheard of for a female to do stuff like that. But the student body backed her up and she went.

MARY JO FESTLE:

Was this when you were there?

FRANCES HOGAN:

No. Before my time. Way back in the twenties.

MARY JO FESTLE:

Do you have any guesses about why DGWS opposed things?

FRANCES HOGAN:

It's just like my daughter who when she was a little girl. People would ask her, "Bucky, what are you going to do when grow up?" And she said, "I'm going to do what my mom does." Well, she was athletic. Now she's just the best looking girl and thin and, you know, pretty. Not at all like me. But when she got into junior high, she came home one day and she said, "Mom," why do all P.E. people scream and yell so?" And since, do you know that she has never said, "That's what I want to do." She didn't like it after that. So, I think you have a lot of women in physical education, or you did back then, who were very outspoken and very opposed to something, and they just, you know, stood up for it. Then all of us coming along were taught by those people. There are still people who are very opposed to women's athletics. And there are still a lot of people opposed to the NCAA. There's a lady at Appalachian who just has nothing to do with the NCAA and she's very upset that we did away with AIAW. So there are not as many now. But it's just a strange thing the way that happened.