Meeting between HEW and UNC in Chapel Hill, North Carolina
Breneman describes the meeting held in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, regarding HEW's criteria for desegregation. According to Breneman, the negotiation process was somewhat unique with the University of North Carolina system. Here, he particularly emphasizes interactions with William Friday, president of the UNC system.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with David Breneman, May 10, 1991. Interview L-0122. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- WILLIAM LINK:
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You attended this meeting in Chapel Hill, I gather?
- DAVID BRENEMAN:
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Right.
- WILLIAM LINK:
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This is June sixth and seventh in 1977?
- DAVID BRENEMAN:
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Yeah.
- WILLIAM LINK:
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And the purpose of that meeting was toߞwell, what was the
purpose of that meeting? How would you describe it? Information
gathering, mainly?
- DAVID BRENEMAN:
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Well, I think, again my memoryߞpartly that. But my memory was
I think weߞpartly because of Bill Friday's role,
you know, in the campaign and his connection, you know, in the sense
that he had connections in the Carter administration, the feeling that
he was, you knowߞI think there was a real sense of political
sensitivity with regard to North Carolina on this one. I mean a feeling
that, you know, somehow we didn't want Bill Friday
runningߞtrying to run back up through the
Carterߞdirectly to Carter with complaints
or something, which I don't think we were worried
thatߞwe didn't worry about that with any other
states particularly. So, my memory of it was we were, you know, we were
really going down there in part to sort of try the ideas out. Partly to,
you know, to convey information. Partly to get their reaction. But,
partly to, you know, kind ofߞit was significant, for example,
that we, that three of us went down there together, you know. There was
no other state that we, you know, anything like the three of us went
together. And I'm not, as I say, I don't remember
if we had any kind of plan to try to even go to the other states. The
only thing that Iߞit may have been that weߞit may
have that eachߞmaybe one of us went to each of the other
states, or something like that. That may have been what got me to
Florida. But, I mean, no other state got the full treatment of having
ߞ
- WILLIAM LINK:
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That delegation?
- DAVID BRENEMAN:
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ߞ the three of us go down. And I think, as I say, I think
weߞit was with theߞwith due deference to the
political clout that we thought might exist there. And also I think we
felt we were probably going to be up against, in some ways, a more
astute group of people in North Carolina. And that
certainly isߞmy memory of that meeting is that, you know, we
were sort of chewed up and spit out, by and large. I don't
remember all of it. We got on to the data approach to the process and
the criteria andߞagain the details escape me, but, I mean, I
remember just beingߞyou know, the counter-punchߞI
think there were ten or twelve people from North Carolina there. And, I
mean, they had their top numbers-cruncher, and their top institutional
researcher, and their academic VP, and, you know, the whole area. And
everybody that had any number relevant to the system down there was
there. And they obviously had better data about their system than we
did. And my memory is, you know, a series of ways in which they either
suggested what we were proposing was preposterous, undoable,
unmeasurable, or already accomplished. I mean, you know, some array of
those kinds of responses.
- WILLIAM LINK:
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I gather one of the main areas of concern was this question of
enrollment and the ߞ
- DAVID BRENEMAN:
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Yeah, that was one of our key criteria.