Lighter skin tones in Oxford result of coercive interracial relations between whites and slaves
Lyons discusses issues of skin tone among African Americans in Oxford, North Carolina. According to Lyons, many African Americans in Oxford had lighter skin tones because racial intermingling had been so common during the antebellum era. In fact, Lyons describes how her own mother was the result of a sexually coercive relationship between her grandmother and her grandmother's enslaver. According to Lyons, people rarely thought twice about such situations, pointing out that even if they had, there was nothing anyone could have done about it because "it was slavery times."
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Lillian Taylor Lyons, September 11, 1994. Interview Q-0094. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- EDDIE McCOY:
-
Why are there so many people and families around Oxford are so much
lighter than others and people resent—?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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Well, just like the all the Tylers and everything. Because they
intermarried. Grace Tyler intermarried and married—her
husband was her cousin.
- EDDIE McCOY:
-
Oh, that's what happened.
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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Yes, they intermarried in the family. To keep the family white. They
didn't want no [unclear] .
- EDDIE McCOY:
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Well, why your father went off?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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Huh?
- EDDIE McCOY:
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Tell me about the time your father was sent away? Who was that?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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That was Papa Charles, my grandfather.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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Who was he working for?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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He was working at the dispensary. I don't know who the people
were.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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What is the dispensary?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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That was the—whiskey—where they sold whiskey. They
had a regular dispensary where you could buy whiskey.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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And he was working for a white man?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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Yeah.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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And he sent him to work?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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Sent—he was—no, Papa Charles worked for
the—they sent Papa Charles—he sent Papa
Charles—he decided that he wanted Grandma, and Grandma was
working for him.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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For Mr. Gregory?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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No, Charles Lewis, Mama's father.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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He was working for what white family?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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I don't know.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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But they wanted—?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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But the Gregory man wanted Grandma.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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Uh-huh, and so—.
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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And so, he sent Papa Charles down south to Mississippi.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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To do what?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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To work down there. And he had intercourse with Grandma and
that's how Mama was born. That's why Mama looked
like—Mama had [hair to her waist].
- EDDIE McCOY:
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And what did your father think when he—your grandfather think
when he came back?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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What was it to think? It was slavery times.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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Ain't nothing he could do about it.
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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It wasn't anything he could do about it.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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Did the Gregorys look after your mother? Was they good to her because
that was his daughter?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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Yes, the [unclear] sisters knew it. The
family that lives next door, the—my
grandfather, Mama's father, Charles Gregory, lived in the
gray and white house on the corner of College and Forest Avenue. He
lived there and his daughter, Marybelle, lived in the next house. Her
husband was a lawyer. He lived right—the house
that's right beside the—where the minister
lives.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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Timberlake.
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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Yeah, right beside where Timberlake lives. And across the street, the
[Minors] own the property where the undertaker shop is and the next
house, one of the Gregory girls married [Ashton]—what in the
world was his name? Leonard was named for him. Married the man that had
the beginning of the carpenter shop where Hillside is now?
- EDDIE McCOY:
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Hilltop Lumber Company.
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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Hilltop Lumber Company.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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So, your mother had white half-sisters.
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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Yes, and they knew it. They knew—all of them. They knew that
Mama was [unclear] Charles
Gregory's. His son owned a big house out in Stovall. He was
the one that declared that he was going to burn the school down if they
ever had Negroes out there.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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And he had a half black sister.
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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And that Mama was his sister. Everybody knew it.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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She was the maid?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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No, Grandma worked for them. And how they got married, Papa Charles, his
people came from Lewis.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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Lewis's.
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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Lewis's. That's right, the name Lewis. The Lewises
and the Gregorys owned all that part of Granville
County.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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Uh-huh. And he went to Mississippi.
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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They sent him down to Mississippi and when he came back, Grandma had
Mama. Cause she had two brothers, Uncle Handy and—what
was—Uncle Albert. And Uncle Handy just died. He lived
up—the house that Mr. Lloyd owns over here for rent next to
his house. That's where Uncle Handy and Aunt—what
was her name? I can't think of Uncle Handy's
wife's name. Lived over there in that house.
Mrs. Lyons, that's why they talk about Antioch was named
Howelltown, and all those people out there was light skinned, too, and
there never was slavery in that part of Granville County. We have a lot
of pockets of Granville County that it wasn't slavery and
because it was free-issue slaves like Jerome Anderson. They came from
the [unclear] farm. They own all that land
out there throughout their families, [Hattie Hester], and they was
free-issue slaves and that's the way it was. They was
free-issue people, and they call it "issue" and
"Antioch". Why did we have such pockets of that in
this county, and so many light skinned people?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was the blackest thing in my group at school til I
[went elsewhere]. I was—Lucille [Boyd], Lucille Shepherd,
Annie, Effie Anderson. Anderson whose daddy was white, that lived
where—the Anderson man that had the barber shop uptown that
was downstairs.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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That basement barber shop.
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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Yeah, Leonard worked there. Leonard and Gus [Burton] worked there shining
shoes.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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And you was the darkest kid in your class?
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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In my social group.
- EDDIE McCOY:
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[Laughter]
- LILLIAN TAYLOR LYONS:
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I was the blackest one. All of the rest of them had straight
hair—Effie Anderson, Lucille [Hall], Annie Davis. Those were
the closest children to me.