Segregation persists, but may be eroding
Brown asserts that segregation persists in churches and neighborhoods in Birmingham. However, she sees wealthy black families leaving historically black neighborhoods and white families returning to city centers to live in restored condominiums.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Elizabeth Brown, June 17, 2005. Interview U-0019. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- KIMBERLY HILL:
-
From observation of seeing how much suburbanization has happened in
Birmingham, there are so many people who are living in communities.
Either they've moved out or they're still in the city and yet the city
is mostly black now. So generally everybody is living at least
residentially segregated lives. So what do you think the whole
desegregation process means to them knowing that most of their lives are
still segregated?
- ELIZABETH BROWN:
-
We still have segregated churches, and we still have segregated
neighborhoods. Most of the whites that are have money are on south side
Birmingham. At one time that was going really down fast and then it was
a renewal of getting these hundred year old houses. Well, Birmingham is
a relatively young city compared to what I'm used to in Kentucky. But a
house that I at one time could've bought for like 17,500, it had like
four or five bedrooms. I probably just as well I didn't know it was for
sale because I could have never kept it up. One of these big barns. But
now it's probably worth three or four hundred thousand or more. But I
think, as the blacks become more influential, they're going, they're
moving out into these other areas. At one time you wouldn't find any
person of African American descent in Vestavia, which is probably at one
time was the up and coming white area and they, there's now regularly we
have families-. When I phone, use the phone or black families
I realize it's Vestavia. Mountain Brook at one time would not allow
anyone in there that was Catholic or Italian and certainly not blacks.
It was one of and now it has a few wealthy-. That's the old
wealth of Birmingham. Homewood where I live, I was, it always, when they
integrated, they integrated something called Hollywood and Edgewood and
there was another wood somewhere, and they all
argued about what name they should take. So they finally ended on
Homewood. At the time they formed this city, they took in a black
section of Homewood called Rosedale and so, Homewood, the city of
Homewood has always been integrated from its earliest days in that
sense, but that neighborhood is traditionally black. But now I'm
beginning to see kids walking to school. Homewood is great because it
actually has sidewalk. Kids can walk to school, and they can walk home
and they-. So I'm beginning to see some black kids that are
not in my immediate neighborhood but obviously close enough around the
corner or somewhere. Across the street I see black kids playing with,
there's a family of them that has two kids, and they moved from a very
wealthy district to Homewood because they wanted to have a middle class
background. So I see those kids playing together, and the problem with
Homewood though, this little house that I bought for 17,500 is now taxed
at 200,200, $220,000, and I haven't anything to it except
keep it up. I did add a room and a second bath. Very few starter
families can afford that kind of housing when you're starting out. I
don't like that because I don't want it to be, I tell my neighbors
across the street who are psychiatrists, I said I hope they never find
out my salary or the neighbors will petition to get me out of here.
Teaching in a school like that. Rosedale, the thing I don't like about
Rosedale, and I sort of course belong the association that serves as a
watch dog for these council is the community of Rosedale has been
divided by two highways. One of them going through Homewood and across
the 280 also. So as a result they're fractured into three or four areas,
and they don't have as much of a community. Now it's all integrated.
They used to have their own swimming pool, and now they don't. They just
integrated. They still have a community center that,
but all the activities at the two centers are integrated. But it has
gone down, and it's not just because, it's not totally planned that way.
It's just a very wealthy man owned a lot of property, a black man owned,
and he was in his eighties. He owns about nineteen houses, and he didn't
fix them up. He let the relatives live in them. Well, now the houses are
owned by people who don't live in the state. This is high commercial
property because these streets have, as I said, blocked it off and they
want, they're not fixing the houses up. The people who still live in
Rosedale want the neighborhood not to go commercial, but when you get,
half a million dollars for this property and it's just a house on it. So
they're encroaching a little bit into the community, and this
association is trying to save it by making a historical thing and
keeping all these big companies out that want to buy out this property
and be on this, it's an entrance to a highway rather than a highway. So
right now it's a fight because they, it probably is older than the
Edgewood and these other cities, but we feel like that we should make
these homeowners, we're trying to keep them from selling their property
to the commercial. I'm not actively involved. I just get the newspaper
and keep up with it. And trying to keep them from being able to sell it
and go commercial, and maybe they will now be interested in fixing up
these houses. I couldn't understand why the people who wanted to move
out the inner city why they didn't move into Rosedale because they'll
get into a nice community school, and then I began to realize they can't
buy into it because all these family members living elsewhere won't sell
the property. I think they were waiting for it to go commercial before
they sell it.
- KIMBERLY HILL:
-
And maybe the property value is too high.
- ELIZABETH BROWN:
-
The potential, the property value is relatively high if they were to,
but it's pretty reasonable as far as that particular area is concerned.
The friend of mine that taught here that was black,
I often thought, why doesn't she, wonder why she doesn't try to get into
Rosedale because she would get into the school system, and it's very
convenient. To me it's the best part of the city to live in because you
can go to these outside areas and you could also go downtown if you want
to. The downtown area, there's hope for that because of white flight is
now coming back in the way of condos and lofts and stuff like that. That
shows some promise to reintegrate the city as far as the whites are
concerned. Some of these huge buildings have been vacant for ten years.
They're now selling them and turning them into condos, into lofts, and
so that's a, that's also good, but I think as the blacks move up in
money, they're going to go into the places. There doesn't seem to be the
opposition as far as trying to keep them out at one time I'm sure it
was. I remember one of my students whose father was a doctor, he loved
yard work. So he was out doing yard work and one of the persons stopped
and asked him if he could do their yard work. They were, the persons
were really embarrassed, and he said, it was their, it was his house. He
was just doing yard work for his own. He was a doctor down at UAB in
there. That was in a very high priced area that I could never think
about living in frankly, near a golf course. You know how you put a golf
course in that, how that-
- KIMBERLY HILL:
-
A gated community.
- ELIZABETH BROWN:
-
Yeah, right. So I think and a lot of that left before integration have
moved back into-. You often see a piece in the paper about a
person that left during that time because he or she couldn't get ahead,
and then the parents were getting old and they felt like they had to
move back to help take care of them. They found a totally different
atmosphere here now and quite happy about it. I don't know how much of
that goes on. Maybe not a lot. Sometimes when you
see things in the paper about that you know it's unusual to be in the
paper. So you can't say a blanket situation where thousands are moving
back or whatever. It might be because it's so unusual. But the big
companies now feel free to send, to integrate into the city because, or
go into the city, because now they can move their black employees in as
well as their white. Don't have to worry about color and what they're
going to be associated with.