Desegregation hurts educational opportunities for blacks
This excerpt offers some insights on the negative effects of desegregation. Local papers in Birmingham did not report on the civil rights struggle, so Threatt and his parents read out-of-state newspapers to stay up-to-date. Threatt did not need a newspaper to tell him that his own experiences with desegregation were deeply unpleasant—white students spit on him and he got in frequent fights. Desegregation damaged the black community as a whole, too, Threatt argues: the brightest black teachers and students were sent to desegregate white schools, leaving a mass of poorer, less academically talented students and teachers behind. As a result, the racial education gap was wider in 2005 than in 1967, Threatt thinks.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Glennon Threatt, June 16, 2005. Interview U-0023. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- KIMBERLY HILL:
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So you started out as a gifted student very young.
- GLENNON THREATT:
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I did, but I was just fortunate. Both my parents were teachers, and both
of them read a lot. My father was a voracious reader; he used to read
two or three newspapers. It was actually interesting, because at the
time with what was going on with the civil rights
movement, you had to read newspapers from outside of the state because
Birmingham news wasn't reporting a lot of the stuff that was going on.
So my father used to read- there was a black newspaper out of
Cleveland, I think it was The Chicago Defender perhaps, but it was a
black newspaper that was giving a lot of very, very good coverage on the
civil rights movement. My father used to have to read that newspaper to
find out what was going on here. There were two black newspapers in
Birmingham at the time, The Birmingham World and The Birmingham Times.
The Birmingham World is no longer in existence; The Birmingham Times is
still here now. They were really more as I remember them kind of events
and gossip related newspapers and not really that focused on hard news.
So it was a very different environment for journalists even to have
access to things that were going on, because a lot of the stuff that was
happening here people didn't really want it to be recorded.
- KIMBERLY HILL:
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Or they were under pressure not to record it.
- GLENNON THREATT:
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Sure, sure.
[Phone rings.]
- GLENNON THREATT:
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My fourth grade teacher in the all black school had a Ph D., in
elementary education. One of the things that was strange about the
desegregation in the public schools in Birmingham was because what they
did in many instances was they took the best, most qualified, most well
trained teachers from the all black schools and put them in white
schools and then they replaced them with white teachers that were right
out of college. And so, it diluted the talent and experience pool in the
black schools. Also, the first children that began to integrate the
formerly all white schools were the children of lawyers, the children of
doctors and teachers. They tended to be as a group, better students,
certainly more economically advantaged than some of the students that
were left in the black schools. So what really has
happened in Birmingham as a result of integration is that the black
schools have gotten a whole lot worse and the white schools, which were
integrated to some degree but not really integrated, have gotten a whole
lot better. The disparities in education in my view may be worse now
than they were in 1967.
- KIMBERLY HILL:
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That's a good point to make.
- GLENNON THREATT:
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Well, because what you have is a city school system where, although only
seventy percent of the population of Birmingham is black, about ninety
five percent of the school population is black.
- KIMBERLY HILL:
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You are talking about currently?
- GLENNON THREATT:
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Talking about currently, in the Birmingham schools. Because the white
students have fled to suburban schools, and because of the
constitutional structure of the state of Alabama we don't have home rule
in Birmingham so it is very restricted on the city's ability to put
additional funds into education. So, you have run down schools, low paid
teachers and then you have extraordinary schools in the suburbs.
Therefore, many of the blacks that can afford to move to suburban
communities are moving there so they can send their kids to better
schools. Just like Dr. Julius Wilson talks about, you have a situation
now where many of the role models that used to be in the black community
no longer live there. I grew up in a church where there was one black
lawyer, a guy named Arthur Shores, who was licensed to practice law in
the state of Alabama for I think sixteen or seventeen years. He was the
only black lawyer licensed in the state and he went to my church. There
were three other black lawyers that went to my church, and that was
probably half of the black members of the Birmingham bar. I had several
Ph.D.s that went to my church. I went to The First
Congregational Church here in Birmingham. It was really through my
church that I ended up going to Indian Springs because what happened was
that during the desegregation struggles here, my church was affiliated
with a white congregation called the Plymouth Congregational Church in
Mountain Brook, which is probably the most affluent community in the
state. They started a discussion group called Black and White Together,
where white teenagers would come and have church services with us and
then we would go and have church services with them and then we would
have meetings a couple of evenings a month to talk about things that
were going on in our lives. I believe that the solution to bigotry is
just for people to get to know each other, because a lot of bigotry is
based on ignorance. Many of these kids, the only black people they had
known were people that worked in their homes or folks that performed
services for them. I had known some white people, but not very many.
Until I got an opportunity to meet people there and many of them were
talking about the secondary education that they were looking forward to
and the colleges they were looking forward to. I started thinking about
these kids and I thought these kids aren't any smarter than I am, if
they can go to these private schools and if they can go to Princeton and
schools like that then I can apply and maybe I can get in too. That was
really how I ended up at Princeton, to be honest with you. There was a
kid from my school who applied there and didn't get in, and he said that
he thought they just weren't taking students from Alabama. I said I
don't believe that's true, so I applied and they let me in and gave me a
scholarship. It was an interesting time. My first exposure to
integration in schools was very, very bad. It was bitter. I was spit on,
I got in lots of fights and I got suspended from school twice in the
first two weeks for fighting because of racial slurs.
The first month I was in that class none of the white students in the
class would speak to me. The first time we had lunch I came and sat down
my lunch tray at the table with the other students in my class and every
one of them got up and left.
- KIMBERLY HILL:
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And this was a small class wasn't it?
- GLENNON THREATT:
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Yeah, there were twenty-four or twenty-five students in the class. I had
never been treated that way before, and so it was very, very difficult
for me to adjust to. Even though I was aware of things that were going
on, but it was very different dealing with it on a personal basis.