Glass ceiling at UNC
Pollitt discusses how UNC officials failed to accept female leadership. Although Anne Queen garnered the respect of many at UNC, her gender prevented Queen from obtaining a higher-ranking position at the university.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Daniel H. Pollitt, November 19, 1990. Interview L-0048. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- CINDY CHEATHAM:
-
Did you believe that Anne, because she was a staff member at the
University and because she was responsible for the Y and had that
reputation, had that communication with the administration, with Bill
Friday and Aycock? Did she in any way feel like she had to remain in the
back of this movement?
- DANIEL H. POLLITT:
-
I don't know. She did have contact with them. See, Bill
Friday and Bill Aycock were members of the Community Church which was
the center of the whole thing. You know, it was somewhat ambiguous. I
don't know when Claude Shotts retired from here, but there
was a good question about who would succeed him. And again, this was a
man's University. Women go over to the Women's
College in Greensboro and you could only come here if you were going to
the Nursing School or if you live in Orange County or something like
that; or if you were an upper classman and you want to major in
something they don't have at the Women's College.
So, there were very few women. So, at that time, I had a friend who came
here to get her Ph.D. in romance languages and they would not let her be
a TA here. They arranged for her to be a teaching assistant at Duke
because women were not fit or it was not appropriate for women to teach
as a teaching assistant in the romance department. Well, now
here's Anne Queen. She's a women at, essentially,
a men's University, number two in a two person job and
I'm sure she'd like to be number one, you know.
But I don't really think Anne would have thought about that.
- CINDY CHEATHAM:
-
Yes. I was interested in finding out more about how you felt her
position as a female. . .
- DANIEL H. POLLITT:
-
Well, there was that and there was trouble. I know that when Claude
Shotts did retire, or announced his retirement, there was a search
committee or something, on who was going to succeed him. I got a
petition going for Anne to support her for the job. And we
weren't sure she'd get it. There was a search
committee and I think I might have been on the search committee. I know
I was on several search committees for the Y. I would have been a biased
member. But there was that problem.
- CINDY CHEATHAM:
-
Norm Gustavison came in, I noticed, when he was really young and she had
been there for several years. I'm wondering if you know
anything about how that decision was made.
- DANIEL H. POLLITT:
-
I was on the search committee that brought in Norm. But I was also on
the search committee that brought in somebody else before Norm, I think,
who stayed there for a little bit and then became the Assistant Dean of
Students or something. He was out of the Union Theological Seminary and
a very good person, but Anne was not assured that she would get the top
job, you know. And if she did she would be one of the two. . . . There
was the Dean of Women and there was Anne Queen and they would be the
only women with any authority around the University.
- CINDY CHEATHAM:
-
How did you perceive Anne's influence on the students?
- DANIEL H. POLLITT:
-
Well, she had everybody spellbound. Everybody loved Anne Queen and what
she was doing and what she was about. Anne is not a traditional beauty.
She has her own beauty, but it's a unique beauty and so she
doesn't fit the model of the Hollywood beauty type. And she
spoke like she was from Canton, North Carolina after having grown up in
a blue collar household. She had double negatives,
you know, so she was not fluent, not a great speaker at all. It was just
what she was and what she did that created a tremendous crowd of
admirers. You may have seen the letterhead of when we started the Anne
Queen Fund. It starts with Terry Sanford and Bill Friday and all of the
editors of the major newspapers who had been YMCA people under her. It
was just a tremendous list of people who were willing to go and try to
create some sort of a memorial because she should not be forgotten.
- CINDY CHEATHAM:
-
Yes, you say that she was admired by all these people. Why was she so
able to spellbind people? Obviously, her interests, but her interests
were similar to a lot of other people who were active liberals in the
community.
- DANIEL H. POLLITT:
-
Well, I think that maybe it was because she would always say,
"What do you think?" And she wanted everybody to speak
and I recall the first time we had Floyd McKissick here it was a debate
on whether the House Committee on Unamerican Activities had a right to
subpoena the Ku Klux Klan and ask for their membership rolls or not. And
Floyd McKissick defended the First Amendment rights of the Klan. That
was his role and the other guy was the Congressman from Georgia who was
very liberal and popular who thought that the Klan was so bad, they
ought to try to stamp it out through publicity or something. Well, we
had a Klan guy. I forget who he was. We had David Duke here, who was the
candidate for Senate in Louisiana. He got sixty-five percent of the
white male vote in Louisiana, but he came here under YMCA auspices to
get his point of view across. So, she obviously, was very liberal and
she favored Mike Harrington and Al Lowenstein. Sloane Coffin, I think,
was her favorite of all favorites. But she always gave the other side a
break. And again, she never forgot the people in Butner or the Big
Sister and the Big Brother program; to go help children for a couple of
hours. I don't ever find it thrilling, but it could be
considered thrilling to go out and be the first picketer at the movie
theater. My sign was "T'ain't Necessarily
So". That's what I remember, segregation.
"T'ain't Necessarily So"...